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Thanks Ken. This is very well worded. And I will leave it to our XSLT gurus to argue about whether our XSLT 1.0 implementation is non-conformant or only wrong :-). Best regards Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: G. Ken Holman [mailto:gkholman@C...] > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 12:38 PM > To: xml-dev@l... > Subject: RE: Xpath Question > > At 2003-07-25 11:47 -0700, Michael Rys wrote: > >Sorry but this is FUD. > > I apologize, but this was never my intention, and I'll thank you to not > make the assumption that it is. > > >XPath 1.0 has no conformance requirement on what data model a parser > >needs to generate. > > Then I will amend my statement to say "In the context of XSLT the data > model created from XPath states the number of nodes is 5". > > >Unless you have an explicit xml:space="preserve" set, the generation of > >the datamodel as a consumer of the output of the XML parser (which > >always preserves all the whitespace) can drop the boundary whitespace > >text nodes. > > Fine ... but given your use of "can" and Dare's lack of a specification of > the context in which XPath is being used, I think it is unfair to claim my > statement to be FUD. > > Let me try again: > > > > At 2003-07-25 10:42 -0700, Dare Obasanjo wrote: > > > >One of our devs just made me question all that's right in the world > >with > > > >the question below. Given the following XML > > > > > > > ><pre> > > > > <b>bold</b> > > > > <i>italic</i> > > > ></pre> > > > > > > > >what is the result of the following XPath expression > > > >"count(/pre/child::node())" ? > > > > > > > >Is the answer 2 or 5? > > In the context of XSLT 1.0 where this instance is being treated as a > source > file to build a source node tree and the stylesheet does not include any > <xsl:strip-space> or <xsl:preserve-space> instructions, section 3 of > http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116 states "The data model used by > XSLT is the same as that used by XPath with the additions described in > this > section" and the applicable statements from section 3.4 of > http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116 indicate all text nodes are > preserved because: > > (a) - the element name of the parent of the text node is in the set of > whitespace-preserving element names > (b) - for source documents, the set of whitespace-preserving element > names is specified by xsl:strip-space and xsl:preserve-space top-level > elements > (c) - initially, the set of whitespace-preserving element names > contains > all element names > > So, given that context that I've just assumed (an environment claiming to > be conformant to XSLT 1.0), I stand by the rest of my posting, and it is > *not* meant to malign IE or Microsoft or spread FUD ... I'm only reporting > it as I see it and understand it. I *thought* Microsoft claimed the IE > implementation of XSLT to follow XSLT 1.0 (though I cannot find such a > claim right now in the product pages) ... certainly my students think it > is > ... but because of the difference I cite below (and by chapter and verse > of > XSLT 1.0 cited above) I don't use IE in my teaching of XSLT. > > And most (all?) students of mine who are using the Microsoft XPath > implementation are using it in the context of XSLT 1.0. > > Regarding conformance, chapter 17 of > http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116 states "A conforming XSLT > processor must be able to use a stylesheet to transform a source tree into > a result tree as specified in this document." ... which I believe ties in > all of the statements I cited above from section 3. > > If there is ambiguity regarding Dare's question of XPath in the context of > XSLT, then I don't know where it is. > > I *sincerely* hope this helps. > > .................. Ken > > > > XPath says it is 5 because of the text nodes. See[1] the Saxon report > > > below. > > > > > > A DTD might say the intervening white-space is ignorable, but XPath > > > doesn't > > > preserve the concept of ignorable white-space. All white-space in > >XPath > > > is > > > significant, hence burdening a stylesheet writer with indicating which > > > elements have ignorable white-space using <xsl:strip-space>. > > > > > > A big problem teaching XSLT to users of Microsoft products is that IE > > > engages MSXML throwing away *all* whitespace, which doesn't conform to > > > XPath 1.0. See[2] the IE6 report below. > > > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > > > .................... Ken > > > > > > > > > [1] Using Saxon: > > > > > > T:\ftemp>type dare.xml > > > <pre> > > > <b>bold</b> > > > <i>italic</i> > > > </pre> > > > > > > T:\ftemp>showtree dare.xml > > > > > > T:\ftemp>type dare.xml.shw > > > SHOWTREE Stylesheet - http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/resources/ > > > Processor: SAXON 6.5.2 from Michael Kay > > > 1 Element 'pre': > > > 1.I Namespace 'xml': {http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace} > > > 1.1 Text (pre): { > > > } > > > 1.2 Element 'b' (pre): > > > 1.2.I Namespace 'xml': {http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace} > > > 1.2.1 Text (pre,b): {bold} > > > 1.3 Text (pre): { > > > } > > > 1.4 Element 'i' (pre): > > > 1.4.I Namespace 'xml': {http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace} > > > 1.4.1 Text (pre,i): {italic} > > > 1.5 Text (pre): { > > > } > > > T:\ftemp> > > > > > > [2] Using MSXML through IE6 and copying the screen contents to the > > > clipboard: > > > > > > T:\ftemp>type dare-ms.xml > > > <?xml-stylesheet href="showtree.msxsl" type="text/xsl"?> > > > <pre> > > > <b>bold</b> > > > <i>italic</i> > > > </pre> > > > > > > T:\ftemp>copy con nul > > > SHOWTREE Stylesheet > > > file:///T:/ftemp/dare-ms.xml > > > http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/resources/ > > > > > > Root: > > > 1 Proc. Inst. 'xml-stylesheet' (): {href="showtree.msxsl" > >type="text/xsl"} > > > 2 Element 'pre' (): > > > 2.1 Element 'b' (pre): > > > 2.1.1 Text (pre,b): {bold} > > > 2.2 Element 'i' (pre): > > > 2.2.1 Text (pre,i): {italic} > > > > > > ^Z > > > 1 file(s) copied. > > > > > > T:\ftemp> > > > -- > Upcoming hands-on courses: in-house corporate training available; > North America public: XSL-FO Aug 4,2003; XSLT/XPath Aug 12, 2003 > > G. Ken Holman mailto:gkholman@C... > Crane Softwrights Ltd. http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/x/ > Box 266, Kars, Ontario CANADA K0A-2E0 +1(613)489-0999 (F:-0995) > ISBN 0-13-065196-6 Definitive XSLT and XPath > ISBN 0-13-140374-5 Definitive XSL-FO > ISBN 1-894049-08-X Practical Transformation Using XSLT and XPath > ISBN 1-894049-11-X Practical Formatting Using XSL-FO > Member of the XML Guild of Practitioners: http://XMLGuild.info > Male Breast Cancer Awareness http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/x/bc > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>
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