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Yep. Problems. I note that they were resolved as they were notified, and that list members assisted. Some such as the unsubscribe bug are recurring. I am mystified that Liam cannot subscribe or post. That is strange but not personal. It simply makes no sense that an organization for creating XML standards would decline to subscribe the XML Activity Lead at the W3C. So, it's yet another symptom of a bad bug in the listserver, is my guess. Lomas posted an email describing what is being done to fix the problems. I suggest that Liam send him mail to notify him that he (Liam) needs to be subscribed and what efforts he has made to do this. I think we should give Lomas and his staff time to work the problem. Others think differently. When the alternatives are presented, it may mean a divided membership, or one list withers. One can't actually move a list. One can start a new one and recruit. Such was the fate of comp-text-sgml when Henry and Peter proposed XML-Dev. If OASIS undervalues XML-Dev, that is not a technical problem, I agree. But I don't know what is needed to ensure that any other organization offering to host XML-Dev will value it equally or better or that promises made during recruitment will be honored six months later. So consider past behaviors of both technical quality and oversight. We've had a rather unencumbered existence here. However, Karl said that OASIS must provide value to its membership and one thing we should consider is if XML-Dev provides value. Given that this is a good place to get XML questions answered (if not XSLT or all the other lists to which people are often redirected), is that our only value? I consider XML-Dev the one place that the developers of specifications and standards must present their work and convince an experienced and often skeptical audience of the value of their work. OASIS is in the standards business. Perhaps one value of XML-Dev to the OASIS membership is that if the developers cannot convince the XML-Dev members of the value of an OASIS product, it is quite likely that the value of that product is limited, and they need to know that right up front. If one can't sell it to the groundlings, it isn't likely to sell in the court. len -----Original Message----- From: Simon St.Laurent [mailto:simonstl@s...] clbullar@i... (Bullard, Claude L (Len)) writes: >Why don't we find out what it is that is going >wrong with the listserver first? Give the technical >guy assigned to the task a bit of time to figure >out the problem. It's a recurring problem, or set of problems. To quote Karl Best: "I recall having sent almost identical messages to this list a couple of times a year over the past three years, obviously to no effect." Taking a quick look through xmlhack.com archives, there are: XML-DEV Hacked http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1472 Murray-Rust lashes out at OASIS over XML-DEV http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=622 OASIS declares victory on XML-DEV mailing list problems http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=484 Developing community facilities for XML-DEV http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=449 OASIS President apologizes, says deadline won't be met http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=447 XML-DEV's founder losing faith in OASIS http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=442 Is XML-DEV coming back? http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=420 XML-DEV withering http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=416 XML-DEV silent for days http://www.xmlhack.com/read.php?item=280 The move itself was reported on in: http://www.xmlhack.com/read.php?item=227 Based on Karl's message, it seems pretty clear that OASIS has other things they could do with the resources they spend on xml-dev. Moving the list might well be good both for OASIS and for the list. -- Simon St.Laurent Ring around the content, a pocket full of brackets Errors, errors, all fall down! http://simonstl.com -- http://monasticxml.org ----------------------------------------------------------------- The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>
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