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Tim Bray wrote: > At 12:40 AM 2/11/99 -0500, Tyler Baker wrote: > >Of course that is a framework I wrote about a year ago that works nicely and is far simpler > >and more maintainable than "Namespaces in XML" and that idea took about 10 minutes and not an > >entire year. > > We should all feel privileged to be favored with the presence of such > greatness here on xml-dev. We're unworthy. -T. The point here is that dealing with namespaces seems to have all of the efficiency of a political process and not that which is based upon sound technical judgements. The fact that it took me a short while to come up with a solution is because I did not go out of my way to come up with some weird complex solution that only I and a few others could understand. Tim you seem to act as if my comments about "Namespaces in XML" are directed at you. This is not the case. I have very little idea of how decisions actually get made in the W3C (as do most people) and am much more upset at the W3C's apparent unwillingness to become a more open institution than anything specific to the "Namespaces in XML" issue. "Namespaces in XML" is a failure IMHO because of a broken process, not because there are not enough smart people at the W3C (there are plenty of those if you look at the profiles of the people who work there). All I know is you are one of the editor's. For all I know your real opinions on how "Namespaces in XML" should of been crafted may be never really known as an editor in effect is supposed to be a neutral party in any standards process. I don't think developers should have to fork over $5,000 a year and $50,000 if you want a real voice, just to participate in web standards. Yah someone has to foot the bill, but I think the W3C would collect a lot more money if it had a more reasonable membership cost for individuals. Even then it might not matter as I have heard that when it comes down to it the $50,000 a year members have a lot more weight than the $5,000 members. Of course these are only rumors as the W3C is pretty effective at keeping discussions as secret as the Star Chamber. To date I have heard all sorts of cons for "Namespaces in XML" but none of the pros other than a few hypothetical arguments where using the current "Namespaces in XML" recommendation might be useful (the keyword is "might" not "is"). Perhaps there is little content to back up "Namespaces in XML" on its technical merits, or else those who think it is a triumph for the W3C don't care enough about it to actually present to us a good whitepaper on when it is appropriate to use "Namespaces in XML". The only exception I can think of is Jim and David (who I consider leaders in this community in addition to yourself) have done everyone a great favor by taking the time to explain in as real-world a way as possible what "Namespaces in XML" is. Nevertheless, I have not heard any clear argument for what "Namespaces in XML" should be used for. Why should us developers be forced to swallow an internet standard we don't agree with just to be interoperable with an internet standard we do agree with. On another note, your recent ad hominem attacks (including this one) that you are displaying only hurt yourself here. All you are doing is attacking someone who despite your vitriol still have enthusiastic respect for your work on the XML 1.0 recommendation. Like your previous sarcasm directed to me personally I will continue to ignore it as lowering myself to your current standard of technical debate does not do anyone any good. I must stress that I still have great respect for you as a developer right now but my respect for you as a person I hate to admit is waning. I doubt you have any respect for me as a developer or as a person though from your comments, which I consider unfortunate but it is something I can live with. Last but not least, it is very difficult for me personally to justify to myself volunteering any more of my time to these discussions if the so-called leaders take technical arguments personally and then react by using the "ad hominem" approach to detract from defending the arguments in debate. This suggests to me that you know in your heart that "Namespaces in XML" is flawed and the only way you can convince people it is not is to trash the critics of the "Namespaces in XML" recommendation (this includes me as well as Murray Muloney and perhaps others). Regards, Tyler xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers. To post, mailto:xml-dev@i... Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/ and on CD-ROM/ISBN 981-02-3594-1 To (un)subscribe, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; (un)subscribe xml-dev To subscribe to the digests, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; subscribe xml-dev-digest List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (mailto:rzepa@i...)
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