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The XML-DEV BlogThe XML-DEV email discussion forum was started nearly 10 years ago by Dr. Peter Murray-Rust and Dr. Henry Rzepa of Imperial College (UK), covering XML development topics including XML standards, XML specifications, and technical questions related to the eXtensible Markup Language. The XML-DEV Blog brings the XML-DEV community into the blogging era, enabling XML developers to easily follow the hottest threads in the blogosphere. Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/5/2024 5:12:21 PMHi Folks, One of the things that I have learned from this discussion is the importance of a good specification. It is difficult to convert one XML element to another XML element if you have a fuzzy understanding of the two elements. So, I have nailed down the specifications for <Ai . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/5/2024 4:42:59 PMI haven't read all the thread so apologies if I am re-making some point, or saying something dumb that has been pointed out.Three quick points.1. If your schema is recursive, then the problem of determining whether it is always correct is NP, isn't it? Infinite number of inputs. Which, i . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/5/2024 8:16:08 AMRick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> writes: > I haven't read all the thread so apologies if I am re-making some > point, or saying something dumb that has been pointed out. > > Three quick points. > > 1. If your schema is re . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/5/2024 7:15:00 AMLiam Quin has suggested additions to the toy specification of correctness I offered as part of my explanation of the difference between a specification of correctness and a proof of correctness. The additions illustrate an important and useful point: correctness in general may involve properties o . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/4/2024 5:18:54 PMOn Thu, 2024-07-04 at 07:49 -0600, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: > > > (1) for every Airport_Name element $i in I, there is some name > element $o in O such that $o has only one child node (a text > node) and string($o) = normalize-space($i); > > . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/4/2024 1:45:59 PMOn 7/4/2024 9:49 AM, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> writes: Michael Sperberg-McQueen made this fascinating statement: ... my question [is] focused not on how to prove a transformation correct, . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/4/2024 10:39:59 AMI would really like to understand that. What is the difference between “proving a transformation is correct” versus “specifying what correctness is for a transform”? Well, saying that "regardless what input is supplied, the transformation will never fail with a dynamic error" might be part of . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/4/2024 7:49:09 AMRoger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> writes: > Michael Sperberg-McQueen made this fascinating statement: > > ... my question [is] focused not on how to prove a transformation > correct, but how to specify what . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/4/2024 7:45:04 AMMichael Sperberg-McQueen made this fascinating statement: ... my question [is] focused not on how to prove a transformation correct, but how to specify what correctness is for that transform. I would really like to understand that. What is the difference between “proving a . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/4/2024 12:23:10 AMIf yes, then the way to verify the correctness of an XML-to-XML conversion is:Validate the source element against the XML Schema for the source elementValidate the converted target element against the XML Schema for the target elementCreate a predicate that the source-target conversion must satisfy . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 11:40:00 PMOn 03/07/2024 14:40, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: Roger Costello's recent question about how to show the correctness of a translation from one XML format to another very similar one suggests a related question. Forget *showing* that an XML transformation is correct -- how would you define correc . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 8:45:00 PMYes and no, I think. First, API integration is a huge topic and a major part of it is really the translation of information itself - not enhancement; second, if the ambition is limited to a partial validation, a contribution to validation, then you can regard any results concerning the sem . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 8:43:11 PMHi Folks, As I mentioned previously, I need to convert <Airport_Name> to <name>. Here is an example conversion: <Airport_Name>JOHN F KENNEDY INTL </Airport_Name> <name>JOHN F KENNEDY INTL</na . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 8:01:48 PMCool! Thank you very much for the reference! -Michael Tony Graham <tgraham@antenna.co.jp> writes: > On 03/07/2024 14:40, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: >> Roger Costello's recent question about how to show the cor . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 7:21:52 PM>The correctness of the transformation can then be assessed by comparing the information content of source and target. Only for transformations that aren't designed to remove any information or add any information. Those must surely be in a minority.Michael KaySaxonicaOn 3 Jul 2024, at 19:1 . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 7:08:06 PMRoger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> writes: > As I mentioned previously, I need to convert <Airport_Name> to > <name>. Here is an example conversion: > ... > The value of <name> is identical to the value of <Airp . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 6:55:36 PMDimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com> writes: > From Wikipedia: > > "In theoretical computer science, an algorithm is correct with respect > to a specification if it behaves as specified. Best explored is > functional co . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 6:13:26 PMA most interesting question. My thoughts tend in a direction different from pre- and post-conditions. The focus should be on the comparison of structured information. As you are speaking of "translation from one format to another", I consider information content as a possible yardstick. Im . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 5:55:32 PMOn 7/3/2024 4:43 PM, Roger L Costello wrote: Hi Folks, As I mentioned previously, I need to convert <Airport_Name> to <name>. Here is an example conversion: <Airport_Name>JOHN F KENNEDY INTL </Airport_Name> <name>JOHN F KENNEDY INTL</name> The val . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 4:56:21 PMThank you, Liam. Some responses interspersed. "Liam R. E. Quin" <liam@fromoldbooks.org> writes: > On Wed, 2024-07-03 at 07:40 -0600, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: >> >> What language would one need i . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 4:41:22 PMOn Wed, 2024-07-03 at 07:40 -0600, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: > > What language would one need in order to formulate plausible pre- and > post-conditions on XML transformations, or more generally on > functionsor procedures that operate on XDM instances? XSLT maybe. Unfortunately . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 4:16:06 PMThank you. I think you are right for some cases, but not all. For cases where what we want is to translate some body of information from one format to another (whether it's from one XML format to another or between XML and some non-XML format), I think you are right that the information of the da . . . Read full entry » Re: defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 11:54:35 AMFrom Wikipedia:"In theoretical computer science, an algorithm is correct with respect to a specification if it behaves as specified. Best explored is functional correctness, which refers to the input-output behavior of the algorithm: for each input it produces an output satisfying the speci . . . Read full entry » defining correctness for an XML transformation - how?Posted 7/3/2024 7:40:55 AMRoger Costello's recent question about how to show the correctness of a translation from one XML format to another very similar one suggests a related question. Forget *showing* that an XML transformation is correct -- how would you define correctness formally, if you wanted to be able in principl . . . Read full entry » =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml-dev=5D_Convert_one_XML_format_to_another_a?==?utfPosted 6/29/2024 11:28:54 PM"Verifying the conversion" means testing that your code is doing what it is supposed to do.If you have a good specification then you can construct tests by testing that every statement in the specification is satisfied. But it's unusual to have a good specification, in which casse it's up to you to . . . Read full entry » Re: Convert one XML format to another and verify theconversionPosted 6/29/2024 7:26:38 PMHi Roger, On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 15:59:42 +0000 Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > Hi Folks, > I am writing a program that converts an old XML format to a new XML format. > In addition to doing the conversion, I also nee . . . Read full entry » =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml=2Ddev=5D_Convert_one_XML_format_to_another_and_?=Posted 6/29/2024 5:39:36 PMHi Roger,I would say construct XPath expressions for each relevant XML node (including text nodes and attributes) to verify that the values in the new XML document correctly match those in the old XML document. I used to do this a lot with UBL official examples to validate the results of converting . . . Read full entry » Re: Convert one XML format to another and verify theconversionPosted 6/29/2024 5:16:15 PM> 1. What does it mean to “verify the conversion”? Does XSD validation constitute verifying the conversion? At some level, what it means to verify the conversion is a business rule, something to be negotiated with the person or organization contracting you to do the work. If they don’t know wha . . . Read full entry » =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml-dev=5D_Convert_one_XML_format_to_another_and?==?UPosted 6/29/2024 2:07:07 PMOn 6/29/2024 11:59 AM, Roger L Costello wrote: Hi Folks, I am writing a program that converts an old XML format to a new XML format. In addition to doing the conversion, I also need to */verify the conversion/*. I have two questions: 1.What does it mean to “verify the conversion”? Does XSD val . . . Read full entry » Re: How should a two-digit airport runway number berepresentedPosted 6/25/2024 7:55:10 AMRoger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> writes: > "Runways, all runways, have a 2-digit number that represents the magnetic heading of the runway to the nearest 10 degrees. If the runway's > heading is 265 — 274 degrees, the . . . Read full entry » Re: How should a two-digit airport runway number berepresentedPosted 6/24/2024 5:44:00 PMDimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com> writes: > Why not allow both of these? > > In this way, if a human must manually edit the XML document, they will not be committing any mistake writing the number in any of the two poss . . . Read full entry » Re: How should a two-digit airport runway number berepresentedPosted 6/24/2024 4:36:07 PM> "Runways, all runways, have a 2-digit number that represents the magnetic heading of the runway to the nearest 10 degrees. If the runway's heading is 265 — 274 degrees, then the runway number is 27 — always drop the last “0.” The opposite end of the runway is 180 degrees apart, so Runway . . . Read full entry » How should a two-digit airport runway number be represented in XML?Posted 6/24/2024 3:17:44 PMHi Folks, "Runways, all runways, have a 2-digit number that represents the magnetic heading of the runway to the nearest 10 degrees. If the runway's heading is 265 — 274 degrees, then the runway number is 27 — always drop the last “0.” The opposite end of th . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Balisage 2024 Program Adds Late-breaking NewsPosted 6/24/2024 3:12:03 PMBalisage 2024 Program Adds Late-breaking NewsThe Balisage 2024 program is now complete! When the peer-reviewed Balisage program was scheduled, a few slots were reserved for “Late-breaking” material. The late-breaking papers have been added to a rearranged schedule:Program: https://ba . . . Read full entry » Re: How should a two-digit airport runway number berepresentedPosted 6/24/2024 2:14:20 PMNothing like reality to add spice to a good theory. --Debbie > On Jun 24, 2024, at 1:13 PM, Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote: > > On 6/24/2024 11:36 AM, Norm Tovey-Walsh wrote: >>> "Runways, all runways, have . . . Read full entry » Re: How should a two-digit airport runway number berepresentedPosted 6/24/2024 1:13:26 PMOn 6/24/2024 11:36 AM, Norm Tovey-Walsh wrote: "Runways, all runways, have a 2-digit number that represents the magnetic heading of the runway to the nearest 10 degrees. If the runway's heading is 265 — 274 degrees, then the runway number is 27 — always drop the last “0.” The opposite end of . . . Read full entry » Re: How should a two-digit airport runway number berepresentedPosted 6/24/2024 9:12:03 AMHi Roger,> Specifically, how to represent Runway 09? > > Like this: > > <runwayNumber>09</runwayNumber> > > Or like this: > > <runwayNumber>9</runwayNumber> > > One might argue that the former is better because . . . Read full entry » Re: abstract data types in XQuery? information hiding?Posted 6/18/2024 10:34:17 PM> Providing a function-based interface to a type might get you some of > the way. Better yet, divorce types from the processing, and provide a > Java-style functional interface, > socks:get-pair() > socks:get-colour($which as dt:leftRight) > socks:wash($socks as item() . . . Read full entry » Re: abstract data types in XQuery? information hiding?Posted 6/17/2024 10:36:53 PMI explored this a little athttps://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/720and see also https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/220But the basic answer is that we don't really have any mechanism for data hiding in the QT languages, and it's not easy to graft on.Michael KaySaxonicaOn 17 Jun 2024, at . . . Read full entry » Re: abstract data types in XQuery? information hiding?Posted 6/17/2024 10:27:32 PMOn Mon, 2024-06-17 at 11:35 -0600, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: > > Since XQuery doesn't have the ability to declare new type names (or > am I > missing something very important?), I don't see a straightforward way > to > do this inside of XQuery. You can import a schema, but o . . . Read full entry » Re: abstract data types in XQuery? information hiding?Posted 6/17/2024 6:08:27 PM> For example, I could use a macro pre-processor to define a short name > for the abstract data type and as its expansion supply the appropriate > type description. I was wondering if this could not be achieved by using a type-name (alias) and an extensible record (that mandates . . . Read full entry » abstract data types in XQuery? information hiding?Posted 6/17/2024 11:35:53 AMSuppose that a program written in a set of XQuery modules made use of some abstract data type. Suppose further that the programmer wished to be able to experiment with different implementations of that abstract data type. (Maybe it's an XML element node, or a sequence of elements, maybe it's a ma . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v10.8.Posted 6/17/2024 9:47:39 AMRelease of XMLmind XML Editor v10.8. Highlights: =============================================================== Release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition v1.3 XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition (XXEW for short) is a 100% JavaScript, lightweight, streamlined, implementation of XMLmind XM . . . Read full entry » [ANN] BaseX 11: The XMLPrague 2024 EditionPosted 6/6/2024 1:12:38 PMDear all,We’ve been hard at work finalizing version 11 of BaseX, our open source XML framework, database system, and XQuery processor:https://basex.org/First, we have revised our documentation, which is now generated with RESTXQ:https://docs.basex.org/Next, you can now visit BXFiddle to launch XQue . . . Read full entry » [ANN] XML Prague 2024 - last chance to registerPosted 5/27/2024 2:29:11 PMDear XML enthusiasts, you still have time until end of this week to register for XML Prague 2024. https://www.xmlprague.cz/conference-registration/ This year schedule is really packed with an interesting talks. See yourself: Thursday (unconference day): https://www.xmlprague.cz/day1-202 . . . Read full entry » [ANN] XSpec v3.0.3 - new release availablePosted 4/17/2024 6:08:26 PMHi,A new official release of XSpec, v3.0.3, is available at: https://github.com/xspec/xspec/releases/tag/v3.0.3The release notes on GitHub list the changes. Here are the highlights:Common to Languages Under TestXSpec is tested with Saxon 12, 11, and 10, while use of Saxon versions earlier than 12.4 . . . Read full entry » Pre-processing unstructured dataPosted 4/10/2024 9:12:16 PMhttps://learn.deeplearning.ai/courses/preprocessing-unstructured-data-for-llm-applications/lesson/1/introduction Might this be (another) 'uphill' transform usable for XML? regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docbook FAQ. . . . Read full entry » Re: An XML document is an information resource (series ofoctetPosted 4/5/2024 3:12:28 PMThe RFC 7303 is quite careful about using "document": what is being transmitted is indeed entities.It says:```` document entities: The media types application/xml or text/xml, or a more specific media type (see Section 9.6), SHOULD be used. external DTD subsets: The media ty . . . Read full entry » Re: An XML document is an information resource (series ofoctetPosted 4/5/2024 3:05:35 PMI think that sentence is saying something slightly different.It is saying "the specification for JSON that this RFC uses is the RFC for MIME media type application/json", i.e. RFC 4627 and successors. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4627.htmlThe specification for applicat . . . Read full entry » Validating structured XML attributes containing JSON with SchematronPosted 4/5/2024 11:32:49 AMProbably this is obvious, but you can use Schematron to validate so-called "structured attributes", which is where an XML attribute value contains arbitrary structured data to any nesting depth. (Structured attributes take the pressure off having to use element syntax for complex metadata . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v10.7Posted 3/28/2024 9:40:40 AMRelease of XMLmind XML Editor v10.7. Highlights: =============================================================== Release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition v1.2 XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition (XXEW for short) is a 100% JavaScript, lightweight, streamlined, implementation of XMLmind XM . . . Read full entry » [ann] Oxygen XML Editor version 26.1Posted 3/27/2024 4:46:01 PMHi all, I an happy to announce that version 26.1 of Oxygen XML Editor is available from our website: https://www.oxygenxml.com An important change introduced by the new version is that the Enterprise edition becomes AI-ready, offering access without the need for an additional subscription to t . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Upcoming XSpec v3.0Posted 3/26/2024 7:01:19 AMWe plan to release XSpec v3.0 in mid April. Please try the release candidate, and feel free to report any bugs, feature requests, or feedback.You may be interested in these changes:Common to Languages Under TestXSpec is tested with Saxon 12, 11, and 10, while use of Saxon versions earlier than 12.4 . . . Read full entry » [ANN] XML Prague 2024 - CFP ends in two weeksPosted 3/16/2024 11:49:18 AMDear XML enthusiasts, There are still more than two weeks to finish and submit your proposal for XML Prague 2024. The XML Prague conference is a three-day event on XML for developers, markup geeks, information managers and students. It will be held on June 6-8, 2024, at the Prague Unive . . . Read full entry » Expat 2.6.2 released, includes security fixesPosted 3/13/2024 9:32:34 PMHello everyone! (A *more detailed* blog-post version of this e-mail is available online at https://blog.hartwork.org/posts/expat-2-6-2-released/ .) Expat 2.6.2 [1] has been released earlier today. This release fixes security issue CVE-2024-28757 that can be used to cause denial of service. . . . Read full entry » online xml schema validation and xslt transformation toolsPosted 3/7/2024 9:03:17 PMHi all, Over the past few weeks, I've been reworking on following site, https://www.softwarebytes.org.The recent main changes to this site include following few things,1) The online functionality of this site is now, behind user login. This feature may prompt users not to use this site. But t . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XSL-FO Converter v6.4.2Posted 2/29/2024 9:39:20 AMXMLmind XSL-FO Converter v6.4.2 (February 29, 2024). Maintenance release: - Updated most software components in XMLmind XSL Utility and XMLmind XSL Server. - Official support of Java™ 21 and macOS Sonoma (version 14). More information in https://www.xmlmind.com/foconverter/changes.html -------- . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind Word To XML v1.11Posted 2/16/2024 9:21:26 AMRelease of XMLmind Word To XML v1.11: - Minor enhancements and bug fixes. - Updated some software components. - Official support of Java™ 21 and macOS Sonoma (version 14). More information in https://www.xmlmind.com/w2x/changes.html ------------------------------------- What is XMLmind Word To X . . . Read full entry » Expat 2.6.0 released, includes security fixesPosted 2/6/2024 9:41:27 PMHello everyone! (A *longer* blog-post version of this e-mail is available online at https://blog.hartwork.org/posts/expat-2-6-0-released/ .) Expat 2.6.0 [1] has been released earlier today. Most importantly, this release fixes two security issues — CVE-2023-52425 and CVE-2023-52426 — that can . . . Read full entry » Online XML Schema validatorPosted 2/2/2024 10:55:22 AMHi all, I've earlier hosted the web site https://www.softwarebytes.org, providing access to features for Online XML Schema validations.Earlier this site didn't require any user authentication.Now, the features on the site https://www.softwarebytes.org providing Online XML Schema validatio . . . Read full entry » Re: XML FAQ and trainingPosted 1/31/2024 2:53:58 PMOn 17.01.2024 17:16, Peter Flynn wrote: I have been updating the XML and related conference events in the XML FAQ (and adding a couple of translations that have been done). Hi Peter, many thanks for this and especially for listing XML Prague there. I get occasional queries about train . . . Read full entry » Re: Knuth lecturesPosted 1/24/2024 7:29:43 PM>>>>> Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@gmail.com>: > Now online > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoROMvodv4rNbeodV7vqxxxWpe4s_SFty Ooo, nice! Thanks! . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Call for proposals: XML Prague 2024Posted 1/24/2024 5:44:44 PMDear XML enthusiasts, We are glad to announce that the call for proposals for the XML Prague 2024 conference is open now. The XML Prague conference is a three-day event on XML for developers, markup geeks, information managers and students. It will be held on June 6-8, 2024, at the Prag . . . Read full entry » Re: XML FAQ and trainingPosted 1/17/2024 10:04:04 PM> add > a section listing the providers of XML and related training and their > principal scheduled events (if any; unless I get swamped :-) > > Thoughts? Yes, i think that may be very helpful. At Delightful Computing we (OK, i) offer XSLT: Two to Three - three intense days cov . . . Read full entry » Re: XML FAQ and trainingPosted 1/17/2024 5:42:54 PMHi Peter, Please feel free to add Evolved Binary to the Training section - https://www.evolvedbinary.com/training Kindest regards. Adam. On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 at 17:16, Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> wrote: > > I have been updating the XML a . . . Read full entry » XML FAQ and trainingPosted 1/17/2024 4:16:23 PMI have been updating the XML and related conference events in the XML FAQ (and adding a couple of translations that have been done). https://xml.silmaril.ie/ (BTW When does JATS-Con get announced?) I get occasional queries about training, which I forward to the usual suspects :-) but I think i . . . Read full entry » [ANN] In-Person XML Training Feb 2024 - The Complete XML Developer,LondoPosted 1/17/2024 3:55:24 PMEvolved Binary are launching our new range of Training Courses beginning with The Complete XML Developer in February 2024, and we would like to invite you and your colleagues to join us in London. The Complete XML Developer covers XPath, XSLT, XQuery, and XML Databases, it is taught in-person, and . . . Read full entry » Knuth lecturesPosted 12/25/2023 8:57:33 AMNow online https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoROMvodv4rNbeodV7vqxxxWpe4s_SFty regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docbook FAQ. . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Balisage 2024 - Call for ParticipationPosted 12/18/2023 10:03:16 AM================================================= Call for Participation "Balisage: The Markup Conference 2024” Balisage: where serious markup practitioners and theoreticians meet every summer. Critical Dates - 5 April 2024 — Paper submissions due - 29 July – 2 August 2024 — BALISAGE: TH . . . Read full entry » Re: copilotPosted 12/7/2023 9:41:14 AM> > Interesting reading. > > "a year after the tool's general release -- found that programmers > accepted on average around 30% of its suggestions," > I probably accept a higher proportion than that of IntelliJ's suggested improvements to my Java code. It's very goo . . . Read full entry » copilotPosted 12/7/2023 8:28:54 AMhttps://developers.slashdot.org/story/23/12/06/163201/millions-of-coders-are-now-using-ai-assistants-how-will-that-change-software Interesting reading. "a year after the tool's general release -- found that programmers accepted on average around 30% of its suggestions," regards -- Da . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v10.6Posted 11/22/2023 9:28:27 AMRelease of XMLmind XML Editor v10.6. Highlights: ============================================== Release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition v1.1 XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition (XXEW for short) is a 100% JavaScript, lightweight, streamlined, implementation of XMLmind XML Editor running . . . Read full entry » =?UTF-8?Q?Re:__xmosaic_0.5=E2=80=930.10_source_code?=Posted 10/30/2023 9:51:07 PMLooks like the earliest I have easily accessible is 2.0... though I have viola and tkwww going way back. I might have some things on tape too.On Mon, Oct 30, 2023, at 4:35 PM, Gavin Nicol wrote:I may have it... I will look. I did a port and a Japanese localization sometime around then.On Wed, Sep 2 . . . Read full entry » =?UTF-8?Q?Re:__xmosaic_0.5=E2=80=930.10_source_code?=Posted 10/30/2023 4:35:38 PMI may have it... I will look. I did a port and a Japanese localization sometime around then.On Wed, Sep 20, 2023, at 12:09 AM, Arjun Ray wrote:On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 22:39:38 -0400, "Liam R. E. Quin"<liam@fromoldbooks.org> wrote:| On Tue, 2023-09-19 at 19:36 -0700, Luke J . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Version 26 of the Oxygen XML set of tools with Oxygen AIPositron APosted 10/13/2023 7:25:18 PMHi all, The latest major release of the Oxygen XML set of tools is available from our website: https://www.oxygenxml.com/ Along with the XML tools update, we announce the release of Oxygen JSON Editor - a specialized product for JSON developers, designed for editing JSON and JSON Schema docume . . . Read full entry » Re: [xsl] Mutual Recursion with Anonymous (Inline) Functions in XPath 3Posted 10/5/2023 9:13:07 PMHi Dimitre, Nice use case you've shared for XPath and XSLT. I've felt like responding to this.On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 8:27 AM Dimitre Novatchev dnovatchev@gmail.com <xsl-list-service@l...> wrote:Thought th . . . Read full entry » Re: Re: [xsl] Mutual Recursion with Anonymous (Inline)FunctionPosted 10/5/2023 11:19:38 AMHi Mukul,The problem is to implement mutual recursion in pure XPath using XPath function items - and to dispel the faulty belief that some people share with us, that this is impossible to do.As for doing this with XSLT - of course, but notice that you had to maintain the functions in **global** var . . . Read full entry » Mutual Recursion with Anonymous (Inline) Functions in XPath 3Posted 10/4/2023 7:57:09 PMThought this topic might be interesting to some of us:https://medium.com/@dimitrenovatchev/mutual-recursion-with-anonymous-inline-functions-in-xpath-3-0eb7c961806fAlso published in my blog.-- Cheers,Dimitre Novatchev---------------------------------------Truly great madness cannot be achieved witho . . . Read full entry » XSpec v2.3.2 - new release availablePosted 10/1/2023 7:51:26 PMHi,A new official release of XSpec, v2.3.2, is available at: https://github.com/xspec/xspec/releases/tag/v2.3.2The release notes on GitHub list the changes. Here are the highlights:Common to&nbs . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v10.5Posted 9/1/2023 10:10:26 AMXMLmind XML Editor v10.5 (September 1, 2023): Highlights: ================================================================== Release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition v1.0, a 100% JavaScript, lightweight, streamlined, implementation of XMLmind XML Editor running in the web browser. See h . . . Read full entry » Re: XPath 3.1 F&O spec, and HTML ASCII case insensitive collatPosted 8/18/2023 9:51:06 PMHi Mike,On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 3:44 PM Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote:That's the problem with a living spec - anyone daring to refer to it risks the reference becoming dead.The relevant text now appears to be in section 4.6 Strings:A strin . . . Read full entry » Re: XPath 3.1 F&O spec, and HTML ASCII case insensitive collatPosted 8/18/2023 5:28:04 PMOn Fri, 18 Aug 2023 at 10:21, Mukul Gandhi <mukulg@softwarebytes.org> wrote:Hi all, I've been reading the following XPath 3.1 F&O spec section, https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-31/#html-ascii-case-insensitive-collation (section . . . Read full entry » XPath 3.1 F&O spec, and HTML ASCII case insensitive collationPosted 8/18/2023 2:51:27 PMHi all, I've been reading the following XPath 3.1 F&O spec section, https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-31/#html-ascii-case-insensitive-collation (section 5.3.4 of the XPath 3.1 F&O spec).This XPath 3.1 F&O spec section says following,<quote>The collation URI http://www.w . . . Read full entry » Re: XPath 3.1 F&O spec, and HTML ASCII case insensitivecollatiPosted 8/18/2023 12:19:53 PM> On Aug 18, 2023, at 12:14, Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote: > > That's the problem with a living spec - anyone daring to refer to it risks the reference becoming dead. > > The relevant text now appears to be in section 4.6 Strings: > . . . Read full entry » Re: XPath 3.1 F&O spec, and HTML ASCII case insensitivecollatiPosted 8/18/2023 11:28:02 AM(A lot of people are still using XSLT 1.0, which defines format-number() with a normative reference to JDK 1.1 documentation, which is no longer obtainable on the web, as far as I can tell.Would that work ?https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall97/cs461/jdkdocs/index.htmlJean-Christophe H . . . Read full entry » Re: XPath 3.1 F&O spec, and HTML ASCII case insensitivecollatiPosted 8/18/2023 11:14:18 AMThat's the problem with a living spec - anyone daring to refer to it risks the reference becoming dead.The relevant text now appears to be in section 4.6 Strings:A string A is an ASCII case-insensitive match for a string B, if the ASCII lowercase of . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition 1.0.0-beta4Posted 8/3/2023 10:16:35 AMFourth public release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition, version 1.0.0-beta4, is freely available for testing. Added features and bug fixes documented in https://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/_web/doc/manual/changes.html --------------------------------------- What is XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition . . . Read full entry » Re: Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/25/2023 2:39:44 PMThe XSL WG operated a "member-only" policy which meant that only members could see the record of internal discussions. Now that there are no longer any members of the WG, the discussions have become effectively inaccessible to anyone. But it's an important resource and that situa . . . Read full entry » Re: Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/25/2023 1:20:01 PMThat would definitely be something I'd be interested in seeing. Regards Daniel On 25 Jul 2023, 08:28 +0100, Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>, wrote: But it was all a long time ago now, and i no longer have access to the email archives at W3C. I won . . . Read full entry » Re: Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/25/2023 8:27:24 AM> > But it was all a long time ago now, and i no longer have access to the > email archives at W3C. > I wonder what W3C's policy is on making these records available? The XSL WG operated a "member-only" policy which meant that only members could see the record of internal . . . Read full entry » Re: Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/25/2023 8:24:06 AM> > If you want historically reliable information on the thinking in the WG, > I recommend reviewing the relevant threads in the mail archive at > > https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-sgml-wg/ > > Tim Bray's Annotated XML Specification is also a brilliant resource, . . . Read full entry » Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/25/2023 1:14:08 AMHello all, If I look at the XML conformance tests, I can find the test with the ID ibm-valid-P65-ibm65v02.xml has the below external DTD <?xml version="1.0" encoding='UTF-8'?> <!--dtd for production 65--> <![IGNORE[ this is some stringwithout brackets <![ <!ELEMENT . . . Read full entry » Re: Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/25/2023 12:27:24 AMOn Tue, 2023-07-25 at 01:14 +0100, Daniel Murphy wrote: > Why is the ignore section not expected to be valid > declarations like an <![INCLUDE[]]> section? So you can use an IGNOREd marked section to "comment out" problems, incomplete declarations, or even non-XML text. I . . . Read full entry » Re: Invalid Markup in External DTD conditionalsPosted 7/24/2023 8:26:26 PMDaniel Murphy <daniel@devasta.ie> writes: > ... > My question is: Why is the ignore section not expected to be valid > declarations like an <![INCLUDE[]]> section? I mean, if you have to > check the IgnoreSection of a DTD an . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XSL-FO Converter v6.4.1Posted 7/24/2023 10:24:20 AMMaintenance release: - updated several software components in XMLmind XSL Utility and XMLmind XSL Server; - official support of Java™ 20. More information: https://www.xmlmind.com/foconverter/changes.html --------------------------------- What is XMLmind XSL-FO Converter? ----------------------- . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Why Don't People Like XML? Balisage pre-conference onSunday 30 JulPosted 7/18/2023 12:15:28 PMLet's start Balisage with a bang! On Sunday at the pre-conference, Allen Renear's talk "The SGML/XML Approach to Document Processing: [an incomplete] History of Criticisms and Challenges" should get us all thinking and talking. Details at: https:/ . . . Read full entry » Re: Aalto XML parserPosted 7/12/2023 12:18:50 PMI've used the Aalto XML processor extensively, for both reading and writing XML. It's incredibly quick and is probably still is the fastest XML processor for Java / JVM languages. Regards, Charles On 25/06/2023 12:26 am, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: Does anyone here have experience with the . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Third public release of XMLmind XML Editor Web EditionPosted 7/4/2023 9:39:25 AMThird public release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition, version 1.0.0-beta3, is freely available for testing. Added features and bug fixes documented in https://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/_web/doc/manual/changes.html --------------------------------------- What is XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition? . . . Read full entry » Re: XML is the futurePosted 6/26/2023 1:20:04 AMThis is fabulous. The world was ever thus, but this is beautifully succinct and very amusing to boot. Cheers, Damian On 26 Jun 2023, at 3:21 am, Marcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> wrote: Thought you might enjoy https://lobste.rs . . . Read full entry » Re: Aalto XML parserPosted 6/25/2023 8:57:30 PMI've used Woodstox extensively and I from that evidence I think one can assume that anything produced by Tatu Saloranta is going to be to a very high standard. My understanding is that Aalto is basically Woodstox extended to be asynchronous. I haven't used it. Michael Kay Saxonica > On 25 Jun . . . Read full entry » XML is the futurePosted 6/25/2023 7:21:46 PMThought you might enjoy https://lobste.rs/s/nqahtz/xml_is_future (both the original article and the comments on lobste.rs).Best,Marcus Reichardtsgml.io . . . Read full entry » Aalto XML parserPosted 6/24/2023 11:26:31 PMDoes anyone here have experience with the Aalto XML parser? https://github.com/FasterXML/aalto-xml In particular, is anyone able to venture an opinion on whether it fully and correctly implements the XML 1.0 spec? -- Elliotte Rusty Harold elharo@ibiblio.org . . . Read full entry » Re: Aalto XML parserPosted 6/24/2023 8:49:44 PMOn Sat, 2023-06-24 at 23:26 +0000, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: > Does anyone here have experience with the Aalto XML parser? > > https://github.com/FasterXML/aalto-xml > > In particular, is anyone able to venture an opinion on whether it > fully and correctly implements the XML . . . Read full entry » Re: An XML document is an information resource (series ofoctetPosted 6/20/2023 3:53:07 PM> > 1. What is an "information resource"? Your mother. > > 2. The parenthetical remark seems to imply that an information resource is a "series of octets". Is an information resource a series of octets? > Not necessarily. Michael Kay Saxonica . . . Read full entry » Re: An XML document is an information resource (series ofoctetPosted 6/20/2023 3:16:05 PMOn Tue, 2023-06-20 at 12:36 +0000, Roger L Costello wrote: > > An XML document is an information resource (series of octets) > described by the application/xml media type. In MIME and HTTP terminology, a URI (uniform resource identifier) identifies a resource, and a URL gives a Location. . . . Read full entry » Re: An XML document is an information resource (series ofoctetPosted 6/20/2023 1:38:20 PM> Two More Questions: > > 1. What is an "information resource"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTPRange-14 enters the room. > 2. The parenthetical remark seems to imply that an information > resource is a "series of octets". Is an information resource a series & . . . Read full entry » An XML document is an information resource (series of octets) ...yes?Posted 6/20/2023 12:36:09 PMHi Folks, This document [1] defines JSON documents this way: A JSON document is an information resource (series of octets) described by the application/json media type. Would it be correct to define XML documents in an analogous way: An XML document is an information resource (series of octets) . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind Word To XML v1.10Posted 6/20/2023 9:52:41 AMRelease of XMLmind Word To XML v1.10: - Several bug fixes. - Web Help output format: now supports the new corporate layout in addition to the classic and simple layouts. More information in https://www.xmlmind.com/w2x/changes.html ------------------------------------- What is XMLmind Word To XM . . . Read full entry » Re: An XML document is an information resource (series ofoctetPosted 6/20/2023 9:15:08 AMOn 6/20/2023 8:36 AM, Roger L Costello wrote: Hi Folks, This document [1] defines JSON documents this way: A JSON document is an information resource (series of octets) described by the application/json media type. Would it be correct to define XML documents in an analogous way: An XML documen . . . Read full entry » =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFt4bWwtZGV2XSB1cGRhdGU6IFUrMjM3QyDijbwgJmFuZ3phcnI7?=Posted 6/19/2023 10:22:24 PMOn 19/06/2023 18:51, Liam R. E. Quin wrote: On Mon, 2023-06-19 at 09:23 -0700, Tim Bray wrote: I suspect many here will enjoy reading this: https://ionathan.ch/2023/06/06/angzarr.html Hah yes. People we know. The symbol is not in the copy i have of List of Monotype Founts and Special S . . . Read full entry » Re: update: U+237C =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=8D=BC?= ⍼Posted 6/19/2023 1:51:47 PMOn Mon, 2023-06-19 at 09:23 -0700, Tim Bray wrote: > I suspect many here will enjoy reading > this: https://ionathan.ch/2023/06/06/angzarr.html Hah yes. People we know. The symbol is not in the copy i have of List of Monotype Founts and Special Sorts at the University Press Oxford (1976), n . . . Read full entry » =?UTF-8?B?dXBkYXRlOiBVKzIzN0Mg4o28ICZhbmd6YXJyOw==?=Posted 6/19/2023 9:23:18 AMI suspect many here will enjoy reading this: https://ionathan.ch/2023/06/06/angzarr.html . . . Read full entry » Re: DFDL is great!Posted 6/16/2023 5:37:01 PMMichael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> writes: > I wonder how well this integrates with IXML? Conceptually, it seems very similar. Technically, it looks like DFDL is syntactically an alternative to iXML for describing a format. But it might be poss . . . Read full entry » Re: DFDL is great!Posted 6/16/2023 4:56:00 PMI wonder how well this integrates with IXML? Michael KaySaxonicaOn 16 Jun 2023, at 16:36, Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote:Hi Folks, DFDL = Data Format Description Language The idea behind DFDL is to de . . . Read full entry » DFDL is great!Posted 6/16/2023 3:36:50 PMHi Folks, DFDL = Data Format Description Language The idea behind DFDL is to describe a data format using a formal language (the DFDL language). That description is handed off to a tool (a DFDL processor) which understands the DFDL language. Also, an instance of the data format i . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/9/2023 2:59:59 PMOn 6/9/2023 1:07 PM, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: Marcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> writes: ... The relatively deep intertwining of validation with everything else in ISO 8879 makes it hard to write even simple tools. What would those tool . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/9/2023 12:03:28 PMMarcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> writes: > ... For authoring (using markdown through SHORTREF and other SGML > techniques), and embracing HTML, OTOH, I was hoping for a bit more > support here. ..., whenever the topic comes up, . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/9/2023 11:07:48 AMMarcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> writes: > ... >> The relatively deep intertwining of validation with everything else >> in ISO 8879 makes it hard to write even simple tools. > What would those tools be? Well, thinking ba . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/pPosted 6/6/2023 11:27:02 PM> for people using an existing parser via > a SAX interface, it doesn't matter > whether the input is SGML or XML. That's indeed what I was meaning, and if anything, I have to apologize for being so unclear. > The relatively deep intertwining of > validation with everything > e . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/6/2023 8:12:59 AMMarcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> writes: > Also, is it really relevant that you can't use off-the-shelf LALR > parser generators for a markup meta language that itself acts as > parser generator? I'm a little puzzled here. Were yo . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/pPosted 6/5/2023 11:58:08 PMThanks Michael K for bringing up test cases. When hearing about coding an XML parser in two days or similar stunts I was in disbelief considering the combinatorics amount to at least a low 3-figure number for core XML test cases alone. Also, is it really relevant that you can't use off-the-shelf LA . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/5/2023 10:10:29 PMOn 05/06/2023 16:41, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote: Marcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> writes: [...] In that case, I guess it's relatively safe to say this is neither very easy nor relevant since, fortunately you might say, nobody is creating XML parse . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/5/2023 6:26:11 PM> > I wrote the first complete and AFAIK fully conforming XML parser, Lark, in Nov/Dec 1996 (Yeah, XML wasn’t quite finished yet) and it took several weeks, which annoyed me because I really had thought we’d managed to narrow it down enough to make it a one-week task. Is that with or witho . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/Posted 6/5/2023 5:53:38 PMGreetings, On 5 Jun 2023, at 17:26, Debbie Lapeyre wrote: > And my version of the Grad-student writes a parser story (ain't time and distance wonderful) was that the XML spec had promised > that a 'reasonably competent graduate student' could write an XML parser in 3 days. And, near the . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/pPosted 6/5/2023 5:38:58 PMDebbie Lapeyre <dalapeyre@mulberrytech.com> writes: > After working for 3 or 4 weeks, she would complain that the spec was > ambiguous and give up. (Note I'm not saying that the spec WAS > ambiguous, let's . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/pPosted 6/5/2023 12:26:27 PMAs someone who was part of a 2-man team that wrote one of those SGML parsers, SGML parsers were many MAN-YEARS of effort. There is a reason that so few existed and only 1 1/2 of them even claimed to be complete (ours was NOT). The old story was, show a programmer the SGML spec and she would say & . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/5/2023 10:13:53 AMLauren suggests I’m exaggerating so I’ll re-tell the story, which some here have already heard. We went to Sydney, Australia in November 1996 to get married, which we did, and the next day Lauren seriously injured her right knee, she was barely mobile, so our touristing plans were severely cur . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/5/2023 10:05:58 AMI wrote the first complete and AFAIK fully conforming XML parser, Lark, in Nov/Dec 1996 (Yeah, XML wasn’t quite finished yet) and it took several weeks, which annoyed me because I really had thought we’d managed to narrow it down enough to make it a one-week task. On Jun 5, 2023 at 9:53: . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/pPosted 6/5/2023 9:43:15 AM> I think it would make sense for the XML community to go back one step > and attempt to analyze what had gone wrong rather than dogmatically > insist on XML being just perfect. Even James Clark started to question > parts of XML (such as namespaces and the lack of "</>" . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/pPosted 6/5/2023 9:41:27 AMMarcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> writes: > FYI item 4 in the list of goals of XML is > "It shall be easy to write programs which process XML documents." > > What is meant by "easy to write programs processing . . . Read full entry » XML and ad-hoc syntax (was: Re: Please stop writingspecificatiPosted 6/5/2023 7:30:48 AMI second most of what Norm said in his mail, and want to comment further on one point. Norm Tovey-Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes: > Dimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com> writes: >> .. . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/Posted 6/4/2023 8:53:02 PMFYI item 4 in the list of goals of XML is"It shall be easy to write programs which process XML documents."What is meant by "easy to write programs processing XML documents"? To implement an XML parser from scratch? In that case, I guess it's relatively safe to say this is neither very easy nor rele . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/pPosted 6/4/2023 8:01:07 PMI think it would make sense for the XML community to go back one step and attempt to analyze what had gone wrong rather than dogmatically insist on XML being just perfect. Historically this group has believed claimed that XML is perfect, but over the years I think it has come to a consensus th . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/4/2023 6:30:26 PMhi all, On Sun, 04 Jun 2023 15:16:38 +0100 Norm Tovey-Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> wrote: > Dimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com> writes: > > To this day I have been often wondering where to find t . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/4/2023 4:45:33 PM> > For the QT4 specifications, the schema is here: > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/master/schema/xsl-query.dtd > > But it seems unlikely that you didn’t know that, so I probably don’t > understand the question. > That of course is the general-purpo . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/4/2023 3:16:38 PMDimitre Novatchev <dnovatchev@gmail.com> writes: > To this day I have been often wondering where to find the XML Schema > for this type of document. Or is it a secret? For the QT4 specifications, the schema is here: h . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/4/2023 10:47:43 AMSpeaking about " human-readable specification documents", maybe we could learn something on the topic of universal communication and understanding here:http://www.bigear.org/CSMO/HTML/CS05/cs05p35.htm,and this earlier one:Freudenthal, Hans. 1960. Lincos: Design of a Language for Cosmic I . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/pPosted 6/4/2023 8:41:23 AM"G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@CraneSoftwrights.com> writes: > ... > "XML Schema? I don't need no stinking XML Schema!" > > Isn't that the big draw of XML over SGML? For some people, apparently, yes. But for the re . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 6/3/2023 6:52:09 PM> For example, the XPath function library is defined in an XML document > that contains all the function signatures in a custom vocabulary > reflecting the object model for XPath functions, and that data is extremely useful; > it can be used for example to create the data used by a type . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/31/2023 8:59:28 PMHi, On Sun, 28 May 2023 10:57:37 -0400 B Tommie Usdin <btusdin@mulberrytech.com> wrote: > Nobody is saying you have to maintain sites for non-geeks. You can address > and serve the population that interests you. > right. &g . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Balisage Late-breaking News proposals due 9 JunePosted 5/30/2023 6:36:37 PMThe peer-reviewed part of the Balisage 2023 program has been scheduled (https://www.balisage.net/2023/Program.html). As usual, some speaking slots were set aside for late-breaking news, updates, and fast-breaking stories. Proposals for late-breaking presentations at Balisage are due June 9th. De . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Second public release of XMLmind XML Editor Web EditionPosted 5/29/2023 10:20:56 AMSecond public release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition, version 1.0.0-beta2, is freely available for testing. Added features and bug fixes documented in https://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/_web/doc/manual/changes.html --------------------------------------------------- What is XMLmind XML Editor . . . Read full entry » Re: Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under thehood, aPosted 5/28/2023 6:30:24 PMhi Roger, On Sat, 27 May 2023 15:33:22 +0000 Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Okay, I convinced my sponsor that specifications should be written in a way > that they can be processed by software. More spec . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/28/2023 2:57:51 PMhi all, On Sun, 28 May 2023 07:31:31 +0100 Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote: > Actors always have to be reminded when playing Hamlet that there is at least > one person in the audience who doesn't know the plot. > > I think you are far too comp . . . Read full entry » Re: Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under thehood, aPosted 5/28/2023 2:19:19 PMOn 28/05/2023 13:51, Simon St.Laurent wrote: On 5/27/2023 4:36 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: (3) the generated XML is easy to understand. This decision is not the sponsor's to take, especially if they are not familiar with XML. The generated (I prefer the word "captured") XML must be . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/28/2023 10:57:37 AMNobody is saying you have to maintain sites for non-geeks. You can address and serve the population that interests you. The population you care about is not the same as the population that interests me. You have decided to exclude from your consideration people you characterize as "wilfully- . . . Read full entry » Emacs, parser support, emacs 29Posted 5/28/2023 9:24:54 AMhttps://www.masteringemacs.org/article/how-to-get-started-tree-sitter Should make parsing easier. xml not yet included. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docbook FAQ. . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/28/2023 9:18:34 AM> > Contrariwise, I've come across Americans who assume that it is universal knowledge how many cents make a dime, or what age a child is when they reach 5th grade, and such assumptions just show how little they know of the world. > And slightly closer to being on-topic, I've encountere . . . Read full entry » Re: Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under thehood, aPosted 5/28/2023 8:51:44 AMOn 5/27/2023 4:36 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: (3) the generated XML is easy to understand. This decision is not the sponsor's to take, especially if they are not familiar with XML. The generated (I prefer the word "captured") XML must be . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/28/2023 7:31:31 AMActors always have to be reminded when playing Hamlet that there is at least one person in the audience who doesn't know the plot. I think you are far too complacent about what constitutes universal knowledge. It might be true that everyone in the English-speaking world over a certain age knows wh . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/28/2023 5:38:45 AMHi all, On Sat, 27 May 2023 08:34:38 -0400 B Tommie Usdin <btusdin@mulberrytech.com> wrote: > > On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 AM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif@shlomifish.org> wrote: & . . . Read full entry » Re: Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under thehood, aPosted 5/27/2023 9:36:54 PMOn 27/05/2023 16:33, Roger L Costello wrote:> [...] provided, (1) there is a non-geeky editor that is easy for the specification writer to use, I have yet to find such a thing, unfortunately. There is a trade-off between having the level of control a professional technical editor need . . . Read full entry » RE: Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under the hood, andsupportPosted 5/27/2023 4:36:53 PMHi Roger. Thanks for expressing hopes and dreams! 8) Metanorma looks like an interesting tool for standards development. I haven't tried it yet, but you might find it useful for what you are pursuing. MetanormaBecause standards are too important to manage in WordMeet Me . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 3:52:52 PMhi Michael, On Sat, 27 May 2023 08:50:23 +0100 Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote: > > > > I have a hypothesis that such wilfully-ignorant, non-geeky, non-hackery, > > people are becoming less influential, less attrac . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 3:46:45 PMThank you Tommie for expressing this more elegantly than I did. On 27/05/2023 13:34, B Tommie Usdin wrote: [...specialists...] insisting that they make the time and devote the energy to learn skills outside their area of expertise is an effort to dilute their genius, and likely to fail. . . . Read full entry » Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under the hood, andsupports taPosted 5/27/2023 3:33:22 PMHi Folks, Okay, I convinced my sponsor that specifications should be written in a way that they can be processed by software. More specifically, I convinced my sponsor that, under the hood, specifications should be in an XML format. My sponsor said, "Okay, fine .... provided, (1) there is a n . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 1:59:40 PMOn Sat, 27 May 2023 at 13:53, Shlomi Fish <shlomif@shlomifish.org> wrote: > I think computers [incl portable devices], the internet, and web 1.0/web > 2.0/social media/etc. are essential for everyone that wants2matter. and that > mean . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 12:53:24 PMTommie Usdin said: > Our win will come not when we bully the ignorant > into learning our way but when we make our way > easy, invisible, and attractive to people who are > paying attention to other things. Wow! Supremely well said. Thank you. /Roger . . . Read full entry » Re: Editor that is easy to use, generates XML under thehood, aPosted 5/27/2023 11:57:47 AMOn 5/27/2023 11:33 AM, Roger L Costello wrote: Hi Folks, Okay, I convinced my sponsor that specifications should be written in a way that they can be processed by software. More specifically, I convinced my sponsor that, under the hood, specifications should be in an XML format. My sponsor said, . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 10:53:48 AM> This is really interesting. Michael, would you expand on this please? FWIW, the XProc specification also does this. The XProc standard step library is generated from the fragments in the prose specification. The XProc “p:xslt” step specification begins: <section xmlns="http://docbook . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 8:50:23 AM> > I have a hypothesis that such wilfully-ignorant, non-geeky, non-hackery, people > are becoming less influential, less attractive, and rarer: > I recall a brilliant young musician who took over directing an amateur choir at the age of 22. Three years later, when he moved on to hig . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 8:34:38 AM> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 AM, Shlomi Fish <shlomif@shlomifish.org> wrote: > > I have a hypothesis that such wilfully-ignorant, non-geeky, non-hackery, people > are becoming less influential, less attractive, and r . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/27/2023 7:26:14 AMHi B Tommie, On Fri, 26 May 2023 08:00:43 -0400 B Tommie Usdin <btusdin@mulberrytech.com> wrote: > > On May 26, 2023, at 5:51 AM, Marcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> wro . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 10:01:17 PMOn 26/05/2023 18:54, Thomas Passin wrote: On 5/26/2023 1:50 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: On 26 May 2023 17:32:30 Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote: [...] You can get much better results with the right prompting; Absolutely. But I w . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 6:50:56 PMOn 26 May 2023 17:32:30 Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote: [...] You can get much better results with the right prompting; Absolutely. But I was merely illustrating a point.P . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 4:07:50 PMOn 26/05/2023 08:18, Norm Tovey-Walsh wrote: Can ChatGpt do that? :) “No.” But it can almost certainly spit out a great big slab of prose that would prove very difficult to distinguish from such a document. You may bet whatever portion of your anatomy you care to wager on them getting . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 3:57:57 PMOn 26/05/2023 01:55, G. Ken Holman wrote: But the guys/gals clicking on the word processor icon to write an industrial washing machine safety standard likely are not prepared to invent something new. On 26/05/2023 13:00, B Tommie Usdin wrote: [...] These people are often barely literate in the . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 1:54:54 PMOn 5/26/2023 1:50 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: On 26 May 2023 17:32:30 Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote: [...] You can get much better results with the right prompting; Absolutely. But I was merely illustrating a point. P I know ... . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 12:32:08 PMOn 5/26/2023 11:07 AM, Peter Flynn wrote: On 26/05/2023 08:18, Norm Tovey-Walsh wrote: Can ChatGpt do that? :) “No.” But it can almost certainly spit out a great big slab of prose that would prove very difficult to distinguish from such a document. You may bet whatever portion of your anatomy . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 12:14:35 PMIt's published (and referenced from the spec) at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/REC-xpath-functions-31-20170321/function-catalog.xml Michael Kay Saxonica > On 26 May 2023, at 11:56, Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > > Mic . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 11:51:01 AMDear colleagues, dear Roger, I don’t want to interrupt your preaching to the choir ;) but Word *IS* XML since .docx about A.D. 2007 or so. I’d say It being XML in itself didn’t necessarily improve the semantic qualities and machine readability of typical documents. I have a hard time imagining & . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 10:56:56 AMMichael Kay wrote: > the XPath function library is defined in an XML document > that contains all the function signatures in a custom > vocabulary reflecting the object model for XPath functions, > and that data is extremely useful; it can be used for example > to create the d . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 8:26:13 AMOn 26/05/2023 01:03, Michael Kay wrote: no-one has to invent something new to get what you are asking for But if you're prepared to invent something new then you can probably do better... For example, the XPath function library is defined in an XML document that contains all the function signa . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 8:18:37 AM>> Please be consistent. If at all possible, write a parser to parse the data that you embed in > your specification. This will immediately inform you of any inconsistencies. > > Can ChatGpt do that? :) “No.” But it can almost certainly spit out a great big slab of prose that would . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 8:00:43 AM> On May 26, 2023, at 5:51 AM, Marcus Reichardt <u123724@gmail.com> wrote: > ... > I have a hard time imagining "standard writers“ (if there’s such a species) who haven’t heard of XML at this point. There is such a species. Actually, there a . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 6:21:15 AMhi Roger and all, On Thu, 25 May 2023 19:57:31 +0000 Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > Dear Specification Writer, > > Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/processed by > software. Please stop . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/26/2023 1:03:23 AM>no-one has to invent something new to get what you are asking for But if you're prepared to invent something new then you can probably do better... For example, the XPath function library is defined in an XML document that contains all the function signatures in a custom vocabulary reflecting . . . Read full entry » Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/processed bysofPosted 5/25/2023 7:57:31 PMDear Specification Writer, Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/processed by software. Please stop formatting your specifications as Word and PDF. Instead, use a format that is amenable to machine processing. The XML format is ideal. We want to analyze your specifications. We d . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/25/2023 4:37:55 PMOn 5/25/2023 3:57 PM, Roger L Costello wrote: Dear Specification Writer, Please stop writing specifications that cannot be parsed/processed by software. Please stop formatting your specifications as Word and PDF. Instead, use a format that is amenable to machine processing. The XML format is idea . . . Read full entry » Re: Please stop writing specifications that cannot beparsed/prPosted 5/25/2023 1:43:21 PM> Please be consistent. If at all possible, write a parser to parse the data that you embed in your specification. This will immediately inform you of any inconsistencies.Can ChatGpt do that? :)Thanks,DimitreOn Thu, May 25, 2023 at 12:57 PM Roger L Costello <costello& . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Balisage 2023 Program Now AvailablePosted 5/24/2023 10:32:19 AMBalisage: The Markup Conference2023 Program Now Availablehttps://www.balisage.net/2023/Program.htmlBalisage, where serious markup practitioners and theoreticians meet every summer, announces the availability of the 2023 Preliminary Program.Balisage 2023 will be ALL VIRTUAL, LIVE, TECHNICAL, IN . . . Read full entry » Re: Who would you choose to work this project?Posted 5/16/2023 6:22:17 AM> On May 16, 2023, at 1:27, Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > > Scenario: An organization has a legacy data format that they want converted to XML. Specifically, an XML Schema is to be created (and po . . . Read full entry » Who would you choose to work this project?Posted 5/15/2023 4:27:23 PMScenario: An organization has a legacy data format that they want converted to XML. Specifically, an XML Schema is to be created (and possibly a Schematron schema and possibly an XSLT/XPath program). The domain is complicated. It takes years to master the domain. There are two candidates available . . . Read full entry » Re: Who would you choose to work this project?Posted 5/15/2023 3:25:52 PMRoger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> writes: > Scenario: An organization has a legacy data format that they want > converted to XML. Specifically, an XML Schema is to be created (and > possibly a Schematron schema and . . . Read full entry » Re: Who would you choose to work this project?Posted 5/15/2023 2:41:33 PM> Are there other factors (beside knowledge of the domain and knowledge of the XML suite of technologies) t>hat you would take into consideration when choosing a candidate? For example, would you take into > consideration how much time is allocated to complete the project?Communication and . . . Read full entry » Re: Does high quality data contain traceabilityinformation?Posted 5/11/2023 9:09:43 PM> > I am inclined to believe that traceability information is not useful. What do you think? It depends, obviously. In applications like criminology, intelligence gathering, and genealogy, tracking provenance is crucial. A distinguishing characteristic of these applications is that data i . . . Read full entry » RE: Does high quality data contain traceability information?Posted 5/11/2023 8:29:19 PMA colleague told me this: Traceability information isn't required at all stages of a data chain. Consider this: Proctor and Gamble (P&G) maintains traceability of all the stuff that goes into making a bar of soap and where all the soap that they make goes when it leaves the factory. If the bar . . . Read full entry » Does high quality data contain traceability information?Posted 5/11/2023 6:18:35 PMHi Folks, Traceability = who/what is the source of the data. Do you put traceability information in your XML documents? Consider this XML document about a runway at an airport in Jamaica: <airport> <name>NORMAN MANLEY INTL</name> <runway> . . . Read full entry » Re: Does high quality data contain traceability information?Posted 5/11/2023 3:39:46 PMOn Thu, May 11, 2023 at 11:18 AM Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote:Hi Folks, Traceability = who/what is the source of the data. Do you put traceability information in your XML documents? Isn't change tracking, as provided by modern source . . . Read full entry » Re: Does high quality data contain traceabilityinformation?Posted 5/11/2023 3:09:08 PMOn Thu, 2023-05-11 at 18:18 +0000, Roger L Costello wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Traceability = who/what is the source of the data. > > Do you put traceability information in your XML documents? Traceability and (closely related) provenance, are essential in a lot of environments and co . . . Read full entry » Learning to learnPosted 5/9/2023 2:53:25 PMFrom RubyConf 2022. Subject, learning to learn, via DNS Youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxjNsFu_2g&t=37s&ab_channel=RubyCentral Slides and notes, https://jvns.ca/blog/2023/05/08/new-talk-learning-dns-in-10-years/ novel, informative. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docb . . . Read full entry » Re: Looking at the XML under the hood of Word ... how toidentiPosted 5/2/2023 10:06:51 AMRoger, You may want to check the various MS documents that define the format: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/search/?terms=tblHeader Also, the ECMA reference probably has all the information you need: https://www.ecma-international.org/publications-and-standards/standards/ecma-376/ Jean-Chr . . . Read full entry » Re: Looking at the XML under the hood of Word ... how toidentiPosted 5/1/2023 9:38:32 PMHi Roger, On Mon, 1 May 2023 17:04:33 +0000 Roger L Costello <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > When I create a table in Word I want to explicitly indicate that "this cell > is a column header". See screenshot at b . . . Read full entry » Looking at the XML under the hood of Word ... how to identify columnheadPosted 5/1/2023 5:04:33 PMHi Folks, When I create a table in Word I want to explicitly indicate that “this cell is a column header”. See screenshot at bottom of this message. You probably know that under-the-hood of Word is XML. I will be writing software to process the XML, so I need something in th . . . Read full entry » Re: Web anniversaryPosted 5/1/2023 12:29:14 PMhi all, On Mon, 1 May 2023 08:41:47 +0100 Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote: > https://www.w3.org/blog/2023/04/30th-anniversary-of-licensing-the-web-for-general-use-and-at-no-cost/ > > Interesting. > nice, . . . Read full entry » [ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v10.4Posted 5/1/2023 10:38:21 AMRelease of XMLmind XML Editor v10.4: * First public release of XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition XMLmind XML Editor Web Edition (XXEW for short) is a 100% JavaScript, lightweight, streamlined, implementation of XMLmind XML Editor running in the web browser, thus not requiring any installation on t . . . Read full entry » Web anniversaryPosted 5/1/2023 8:41:47 AMhttps://www.w3.org/blog/2023/04/30th-anniversary-of-licensing-the-web-for-general-use-and-at-no-cost/ Interesting. -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docbook FAQ. . . . Read full entry » Re: [ANN] libxml2 2.11.0Posted 4/28/2023 3:49:15 PMOn 28.04.23 14:55, Nick Wellnhofer wrote: See the release announcement: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/libxml2-2-11-0-released/15123 Cool! . . . Read full entry » [ANN] libxml2 2.11.0Posted 4/28/2023 2:55:31 PMSee the release announcement: https://discourse.gnome.org/t/libxml2-2-11-0-released/15123 Nick . . . Read full entry » Re: XSL and related specificationsPosted 4/21/2023 10:26:55 AMOn 21/04/2023 00:03, l@tlo wrote: ... What needs to be changed is ... - XSL Formatting Objects (XSL-FO) is now just called "XSL" (as the link seems to indicate). The reverse, actually. It's the original "XSL" that might as well now be called just "XSL-FO". As . . . Read full entry »
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